Soho & OS X

[baileysemt123]

We are a "small" web host (by web hosting standards anyway) with 8 servers. About 1/2 of our clients use OS X for their desktop OS... our clients are in the graphic design, web development, media and entertainment industries.

I would like to use Soho to branch out into a new niche market, however our own hosting/design business (office) is also exclusively OS X... we do not have a Windows PC anywhere. And we never will; Windows does not have the high-performance apps available, that we need.

Buying VirtualPC is also not an option. It is terribly resource-intensive, runs like a pig wallowing in molasses, and Microsoft has enough money anyway. :P

I have "borrowed" a Windows server guest login from a generous friend, a fellow web host who happens to have a test server running half-way across the country. The minute he finds a client for it though, I get the boot. It could be literally any day. Anyway that is how I have gotten as far as I have... OS X running Microsoft Remote Desktop Connection, plugged into a Windoze server which has IE installed... what a mess. It certainly is not going to work for serious website development.

When does Soho anticipate having an OS X compliant solution available? Please?

Thanks much,
:D Bailey

[Cameron Allen]

First off I would like to make sure that you got soholaunch running, as it sounds like you have invested alot of time. Are you able to login (I just read your post on the fantastico forums)? If not we need to fix this.




When does Soho anticipate having an OS X compliant solution available? Please?

Thanks much,
:D Bailey

We are talking about increasing Pro's browser compatibility, including OS X. I can't give you a timeline on this, but this is not something that is going to happen in the immidiate future. Until then, you do need internet explorer to use Pro.

[baileysemt123]

Hi Cameron,

Thank you for the speedy reply.

No, I am not able to get the installation working. Please see my other thread here: http://forum.soholaunch.com/showthread.php?t=107

Thank you Cameron :)

:D Bailey

[baileysemt123]

Wait a minute... are you telling me the only requirement is Internet Explorer? For heaven's sake, they do make IE for OS X. ;) In fact I just tried to use it and got to the same login screen as I did on the Windows Server workaround.

If we can get this pesky "key" issue resolved I will be happy to further test-drive this package in IE for Mac. It may turn out that your Windows PC requirement, isn't. ;)

Wouldn't that just be nifty ~~~

:) Bailey

[Cameron Allen]

Bailey, I am not sure if this works ON the Mac version of IE, it would definatly be worth your time to try though. I take it you got passed the license issues you where having?

[baileysemt123]

Hi Cameron,

At the time last night when I posted, no, I hadn't gotten past it. But on IE for OS X I was at least able to get the login screen, which is farther than I could get with Safari.

Today you have fixed the data in the license server (THANK YOU) so that it seems your system "picks up" the installation now. I just successfully logged in to the installation using IE for OS X.

Cameron I will continue to test-drive it in IE for OS X and let you know if anything doesn't work. I understand you guys likely wouldn't support it ;) but at least it would be possible for OS X users to to hit most of it (if we're lucky).

I am running the most recent version of IE, which was the last version that Microsoft wrote for OS X before they abandoned the project. (Abandoned, they admitted, because they could not compete with as viable a browser as Apple's own Safari... they threw in the towel! hehehe) The version I'm using is build 5.2.3 (5815.1).

Will keep you updated as things go ---

Thank you Cameron,
:) Bailey

[baileysemt123]

Well, here's the scoop...

It is possible to login to the Soho Admin using IE for OS X. It is also possible to use the links on the very top of the page (the little blue boxes).

However the links in plain-text, in the two main boxes of the main menu, do not work. They appear to be coded differently than the buttons/links up top in the little blue buttons.

Also, if a person goes to Edit an existing page, the display of the available options/items for placing, is really bad. Where on Windows they display all pretty with each action item in a tidy little tile of boxes, on a Mac the boxes are very large and require a person to scroll way down to see what's in each row. There is also no way to adjust that top frame size so that a person can make it bigger, to reduce the scroll.

So it boils down to coding which is not web standards compliant... which is unfortunate, because I do feel that a lot of the power in this product would be basic accessibility. It's not like it runs custom .exe's on the person's PC or anything. Coding W3C compliant pages (or even just univeral IE pages) is not that crazy of an idea...

I actually thought the restriction on OS was due to the fact Soho installed custom Windoze-only apps (.exe's) on the user's computer to work. I had no idea that it was all about simple W3C code compliance. :( Oh well.


How this affects us:
We won't be using this as a solution, most likely. It is just far too crippling, especially considering we would be paying for it but arguably can't use it like it's designed. Realize that for instance, I won't be able to grab images from our hard drive, because we are working through a Remote Desktop proxy server. For the same amount of money/outlay (time and cost considered) designers can set up a client with a custom-made site which they can still update themselves very easily, using Macromedia's Contribute.

As well, the customers of ours who would be likely to use Soho as a business tool, are professionals, graphic and multi-media designers, who would want to be making quick and flexible sites for end-users. These folks all use OS X, as do their clients. Our systems here at our office are compliant with them -- we also run OS X and offer hosting and design services.

(I mean, OS X has only been out for 4 years now -- it's not like it just popped up. If it's important enough for Adobe, Macromedia and Quicken to accomodate, I am confident it'd pay off for the Soho niche too.)

Now when Soho wants to get with the program, great, we'll be happy to reconsider. But until then, Windows-only is just an excuse for "not well coded." Sorry, boys. :(

Please keep us in mind, we do still want to do business with you, very much so. :) I have a live market opportunity here along the lines of several hundred clients/sites which need a Soho-like solution. My earnest feedback is not meant to be mean or hurtful, it is only showing were we feel improvement is long overdue and desperately needed.

Cheers,
:) Bailey

[demostorm]

It's not like it runs custom .exe's on the person's PC or anything. Coding W3C compliant pages (or even just univeral IE pages) is not that crazy of an idea...

With that line I think you have pretty much exposed your understanding of programming these apps. What IS crazy is that you think that only exe files running on a PC or HTML would be involved. All this after you have been running around Here and on Netenberg boards claiming Soholaunch programmers are poor coders. I don't know you as a person. Maybe you are one person online and another off but you have yet to demonstrate any understanding of this issue but have demonstrated a flair for being unjustly condescending and yes a little arrogant.

Now when Soho wants to get with the program, great, we'll be happy to reconsider. But until then, Windows-only is just an excuse for "not well coded." Sorry, boys.

It is quite rude for you to come on a company's board and proceed to put them down when you have already demonstrated you don't understand whats involved in programming their application (it would still be rude either way). Although it is amusing that you think Soholaunch needs to get with the program to see if they perhaps can get you to reconsider. Sounds like you are pretty important there.

First,
Although I share some of the Micorosoft dislike ( but not to the same level) Soholaunch has already stated that they will be working on including all platforms including MAC. That said your need to face reality.

As a MAC user you (and yes even your MAC customers combined) are a minority by a LANDSLIDE. It is and will continue to be a windows world in the browser market. Get over it and take a cooperative non-condescending approach to a company willing to help you reach the Niche market you came here to develop. By being here you are pretty much admitting that you are slim on alternatives.

Second,
Soholaunch is now being used by top names in the hosting industry. They are now looking at thousands of servers with hundreds of thousands of end users. You need not be so condescending because Sohlaunch chooses to answer your concerns. Its not because of your supposed inportance. No one is going to lose sleep, livelihood , abode or anything beside relative pocket change clanging in a tin cup if you choose to "reconsider" or not in using Soholaunch. You like all of us other hosts big and small are small fish in the large aggregate pond of the hosting industry and proudly waving your tail (so to speak) creates no waves.

My earnest feedback is not meant to be mean or hurtful, it is only showing were we feel improvement is long overdue and desperately needed.

Which being interpreted means you know full well how you are coming across but decide to let it fly anyway. I know you will hate this post but if you normally handle people this way then it could be useful. If you look around then you may find ways its hurting you outside of business. On these baords we try to help each other, be constructive and encourage a set of people we've come to respect in building an already outstanding app WITHOUT the unjustified putdowns. Those are the standards here. I wish you well.

[Cameron Allen]

Bailey, I set up a test copy of Pro that I think might work with Mac I.E. w/o a virtual pc. Let me know if you would be willing to test this.

[baileysemt123]

I would love to Cameron. :) BTW you can reach me anytime off-board at khank@door-county.net ... my door is always open and I welcome the opportunity to work with you. The more I think about the possibilities w/ SL the more excited I get about it :) so I am pretty fired up to see if we can get something working. :cool: :cool: :cool:

:D Bailey

[Ruben]

Demostorm,

remember that there are many 'designers' working on MAC, im not the person to attack people on there personal favor and choose to go with MAC (I would love to get my hands on one as well) and im sure SL would love to make its product available to MAC users as well as Cameron allready stated.

like you said: "On these baords we try to help each other, be constructive and encourage a set of people we've come to respect in building an already outstanding app WITHOUT the unjustified putdowns."

I agree on that off course, so please post personal comment in a private message to the user directly and let the moderators of this forum decide if its an appropiate post or not.

Im posting this message here not as any kind of attack to you or anybody in this forum but more as a hint for others who are reading this.

thanks,

[yugnats]

like you said: "On these baords we try to help each other, be constructive and encourage a set of people we've come to respect in building an already outstanding app WITHOUT the unjustified putdowns."

An excellent point that I totally agree with :)


I agree on that off course, so please post personal comment in a private message to the user directly and let the moderators of this forum decide if its an appropiate post or not.

So now I am curious - does this mean all private messages are read by the moderators or someone other than the intended recipient?


Im posting this message here not as any kind of attack to you or anybody in this forum but more as a hint for others who are reading this.

Again, great job Ruben :cool:

stan

[Ruben]

yugnats: Nobody is able to read your private messages! (except for the receiver off course :-)
thanks for your positive feedback

<b>to everybody:</b>
sometimes its off course difficult to not put a little bit of a personal comment towards the poster into things, but just try to keep things informative and general and send your 'personal attacks' directly to the person you are having problems with.
If we (moderators and site administrators) think a posted message has nothing to do with a posters problem, we will edit it, or even delete it. just as simple as that.

[demostorm]

Agreed Ruben but I would ask that the same courtesies be extended to Soholaunch employees themselves. I know that there is a philosophy that the customer is always right in busines but its not true. We have an obligation to see courtesy extended to all participants of this board and as a Soholaunch user I'd like that to include a respectful tone to the programmers who have given us a solid product and are striving to give us a better one

If you took it as an attack on Mac users then allow me to clarify this one time. The only issue I had or have is the various putdowns of the coding abilities of Soholaunch programmers here and on Fantastico's boards based merely on the fact that Soholaunch didn't come out the gates with MAC compatability. I have no problem with the use of a MAC. I like you would LOVE to own a MAC and have no qualms whatsoever with the OS. I do think however it just made sense to go first with IE on windows from SL's point of view and don't think it reflects on their coding abilities.

So maybe we can all agree to keep all putdowns of any and all participants off the boards. It may not seem like much to some to claim SL programmers are"poor coders" but for a programmer its quite a professional putdown. Thanks

[Ruben]

I agree with you on that demostorm, thanks.

[baileysemt123]

It should be mentioned that the only mention of "poor coders" in this thread has come from demostorm. In fact I never used the word "poor" in this thread. That was a very careful choice on my part.

I was very clear in my post that I did not agree with the development philosophy and platform choice of soholaunch. I never so much as considered personally disrespecting the programmers in my thread, as those very same programmers have treated me very kindly, gently and helpfully throughout my frustrating test-drive of Soholaunch.

There seems to be a recurring blurring of the line between product and people, and I would like for that line to be a bit more carefully recognized and respected by all participants. There is no need to put words in my mouth... I am more than happy to speak for myself. :cool:

To the mods, thank you for your assistance as well. :)

:) Bailey

[demostorm]

We've been instructed by the moderator to continue any discourse on the matter privately (not that either of us has an interest) so if you wish we can do that.

To clear the air let me state that I did convey that the my response did not limit itself to this thread however in retrospect I realize that the full context of a response ought to be on this board to respond to it. I just personally saw no difference in the tone in this thread and the ones where you did use the word "poor" several times.

So to be fair it was my error to respond across the context of two different boards and in line with the instructions given I will let the issue die here. I am happy that you have gotten to know members of the Soholaunch team. If I am defensive of them it is not without reason. Great set of guys (never spoken to any women. Whats up with that SOHO? :D ) Thanks