Pro 4.7 or Tucows Web Site Builder etc etc?

[netmotiv8]

Hi,

As a current partner for soholaunch I have been a little frustrated at the lack of good quality modern looking templates which other web site builder providers seem to be offering in abundance. I am aware that you have been working hard with the new 4.7 and the promise of a dedicated template site but the current lacking of good templates is making soholaunch a less worthwhile proposition as time goes on and have so far held off from really pushing Pro until I see Pro 4.7 and the new template offerings. I am wondering about whether long term going with Pro is the direction my business should go. As a reseller for domain names with Opensrs (Tucows) I have been invited to resell their recently released web site builder application through my reseller account. Looking at it seems pretty impressive and the pricing policy is very attractive.

Web site builders are primarily for customers who perhaps are individuals or small business who want an internet presence but have no web design skills to make this happen through other means. Therefore are motivated by how good the available templates look and the cost of the application.

We are a web hosting provider and sale Pro as a valued added line to our services with inclusive hosting. Dont get me wrong I personally like Pro but I what I like and what I think the customer will subscribe to in the future are different things and of course I/We have to think about the customer.

Maybe I am just frustrated about the wait for new templates (which I simply do not have time to develop any of my own, the reason why I signed up to Pro in first place) I dunno, but I am getting itchy feet.

I hate moaning but I feel like I've been waiting for ages for all the new stuff. Web Site Builder tools will be the big thing over the next couple of years, perhaps a must, for the web hosting companies that are aimed at the SME/SMB markets and I want my business to be with the right supplier from the start, hopefully. soholaunch :)


Be interested to know other views, maybe I am disappearing up my own butt! Please tell me if I am and i will shut up! :eek:

[Ruben]

Hi Netmotive8,

Im glad to tell you that we just launched SOHOtemplates.com where we offer high quality soholaunch templates for the latest soholaunch versions.
There are not so many at this moment, because we want to see the interest of people, but will continue to design more and more designs.

[netmotiv8]

Hi Netmotive8,

Im glad to tell you that we just launched SOHOtemplates.com where we offer high quality soholaunch templates for the latest soholaunch versions.
There are not so many at this moment, because we want to see the interest of people, but will continue to design more and more designs.


Looks promising I am liking the look of these templates :) . My only gripe is that this quality of template is now appearing as 'standard' templates elsewhere within web site builder applications. Personally I think $129 dollars for a package of 4 templates is not very attractive. That said I suppose it becomes a customers choice to decide whether they would like to buy the template or set of templates, but then overall it then drives the customers costs higher to use Pro. I would recommend templates to be priced much much cheaper.

I feel that either these templates should be available for considerably less or included as part of Pro 4.7 (perhaps for you then to receive a kind of royalty from soholaunch) to have any real value to my target audience, the non-html customer, who wants an application to provide everything he/she needs without having to go search for new templates 'offsite' which has to pay for. This I believe would bring into question his interest in signing up.

Do you have any idea what new templates are available as standard on the new Pro 4.7?


Keep the templates coming, but please reduce the pricing :)


Neil :D

[Ruben]

Hi Netmotiv8,

Well, thats off course your opinion, but please keep in mind that these templates are allready made compatible for soholaunch, where the user does not need to make any big changes + the person who buys it can use these template for all users on 1 server.

(the template pack you are talking about actually includes 7 templates)

We have spend much time in creating these templates and new ones are coming up. (proberbly tomorrow some)

There are indeed many places on the web where you can buy cheaper templates, but do you really want to spend many hours on slicing, sorting, implementing codes and testing for lets say 39 bucks? or even $ 129.

We will also release soon 'Unique' templates with PSD files and created compatible for soholaunch off course, but these will have a higher price as you will get the total rights.

I really don't want to compare the quality of extremely low priced templates with our low priced 39 bucks templates as we are receiving great feedback from people about the quality, but thats off course everybody has their own opinion about, we just try to deliver some 'other kind' of templates than the ones allready out there and hope users are happy with it.

Your idea about working together with soholaunch is great, as we are allready in discussion with them, but can't tell you anything more about it. The only thing i can say is that free templates (or allmost free), will never have the same quality as the ones you pay for :-)

If you want to offer your customers something really cool, than we can discuss a price to create a customized template for you off course.

thanks for your feedback Neil and hope you understand also our point of view.

Ruben

[demostorm]

Hi Neil and Ruben

I think the templates and pricing is rather reasonable given that you are in essence being given resale rights to everyone on your server. So with that I aree with you Ruben. As somewhat of a designer myself I couldn't think of doing it for less and to be honest I would not do it for that. However I do have to agree with Neil that some modern templates in the standard pack would go a long way both in the success of Soholaunch and in the success of Sohotemplates.com

Like neil I thought that some new templates were going to be part of Soholaunch's standard templates in 4.7. As a designer I don't mind. After all I fully intend to offer my customers designs unique to my business and thats what drew me to soholaunch to begin with but if a non designer has to buy a pack of 10-15 designs to get going then that makes other packages much more competitive with SL. I think thats what Neil was saying.

Ruben, hats off to you for designing templates that sell for $39 and can be used by 100+ sites per server. Like I said it wouldn't be worth my time. Personally, I'd prefer to sell templates per site (not server) that each customer pays for but then that would require more standard templates to begin with. In the end though it would be far more lucrative

[Ruben]

thanks for your feedback demostorm, i understand your point of view about this as well and we will look further into this.

for now, we just keep putting up new templates :-)

[netmotiv8]

Hi Guys.

I am not trying to undermine your hard work. Essentially I sell web hosting. Pro gives me the web site builder option in our portfolio which as I said in my earlier post will be the big thing for hosting companies.

I 100% appreciate the 'free' templates will never be as good a quality as the ones you will design however, out of the box, Pro 4.7 NEEDS to include a lot more freely available up to date templates, it is a simple as that for Pro to compete.

I also appreciate from a designer point of view that Pro appears to have many advantages over the other web site builders I have seen being promoted by the big web hosting companies hence the reason why I believe Pro can offer best of both worlds to consumer and to the designer. The balance appears to be more in favour of the designer than the consumer at the moment which is a problem from my side of the fence.

What I am planning to do is offer template customisation and pass the work on to you guys perhaps? ;) , how does that sound. To be honest we havent sold much of Pro yet mostly due to lack of advertising etc on our part. Perhaps you could contact me about the kind of rates I could expect to pay for your services?

I am a loyal kind of guy so dont wanna jump ship. I will always try to 'push' to get what i think will benefit the users of software I use and my business ;)

Neil :D

[netmotiv8]

Ruben, hats off to you for designing templates that sell for $39 and can be used by 100+ sites per server. Like I said it wouldn't be worth my time. Personally, I'd prefer to sell templates per site (not server) that each customer pays for but then that would require more standard templates to begin with. In the end though it would be far more lucrative

I stand corrected, I should have read your usage policy first!! Yes I agree $39 for templates that can be used 'per server' is excellent. However if I need to get another 100+ templates, from a business such as yours, into Pro then I am possibly looking at $3900 etc added on to the Pro expeniture per server. I would then have to sell many many licenses to break even.

Is Pro a consumer product or a designer product?

What new templates are available as standard for Pro 4.7, any?

Neil

[Ruben]

Hi Neil,

contact me by email and im sure we can work something out :-)

Ruben

[netmotiv8]

I like the IT and Corporate templates you have just added. Exactly the kind of templates I;ve been waiting for.

Can you look at generating a football (soccer) templates, offering white, red, blue, black, green and yellow colour schemes. Aimed at the soccer enthusiast who would want to build a site dedicated to the team they support etc. Football (Soccer) being a worldwide popular game think this would be a cracking template to offer.

Also, how about Golf and Tennis, Formula 1 racing type sites too.

I am impressed with your templates so far.

If I were to buy ALL the templates would I get discount as opposed to buying packages singularly.

Of course, I dont want to detract from Pro 4.7 offering a wealth of new templates either!


Neil :D

[Ruben]

Hi Neil,

Thanks for the great feedback, at least we know we are on the right 'track' :-)

Golf template is on the way and we have the template types you want allready planned.

You would off course be able to get a discount when buying multiple templates. Would you need a pricing for using all templates with a 'server license' ? or a 'single user license' ?

The soccer templates would be no problem either. I expect these to be released after the golf template.

[netmotiv8]

I would be purchasing a server license so that I can offer to all our customers on the web site builder hosting plan :D

Have you thought about a possible subscription plan?


Neil :D

[Ruben]

Yes, we have thought about it and will see what we can do about it at a later stage. We first need to see if this all is interesting enough off course. no sales no upgrade :-)

[netmotiv8]

With your IT templates, can you generate some more colour schemes, same images etc but 4 or 5 different colours etc. Suggest Red, Orange/Yellowish, Green (not a garish!), Silver/Grey to be going with.

BTW... I like the soon to be available golf template.

Keep 'em coming :cool:


Do you know what new templates ae available as standard in Pro 4.7?


Neil :)

[Cameron Allen]

Do you know what new templates ae available as standard in Pro 4.7?

Neil :)

Neil,

Pro 4.7 has the same templates though they are revamped through CSS. This makes it so anyone can edit the colors of the text, menu, font ect. through the cascading style sheets. All new templates will not be released in 4.7 due to a few factors, mostly because I am in ongoing discussions with photographers over licensing of their photos. Though Soholaunch isn't releasing new templates in 4.7, the standard templates are revamped, and Ruben's http://sohotemplates.com offers a good template selection.

[demostorm]

100+ templates, from a business such as yours, into Pro then I am possibly looking at $3900 etc added on to the Pro expeniture per server. I would then have to sell many many licenses to break even.

Is Pro a consumer product or a designer product?

Neil

Hi Neil,

I think its both because a good percentage of my customers want some amount of design control. First judging by some press releases I took a guess at what application you were talking about. On their website they announced that they did a deal with Tucows to offer it to their resellers. I won't name the product here but it has the word galore in it and I mention that because I am only reasonably certain it is the package to which your refer.

Okay, props where they deserve props. There are alot of templates but if I were a customer I'd get bored with the whole thing pretty quick as i did with my trial. In my trial of that product I found no way to replace images (in fact the system forbids the customer access to the files) , No way to put a product on any other page but a product page, No way to put a slogan or a logo where I wanted it. no way to change the header or a company banner at the top. The layout is static. Not only can't the customer change the files they need to but as far as I could see even if I wanted to I couldn't change the design behind the scenes either. Just the fact that I can't put a product on the front page makes it useless to most of my customers. Maybe theres more to it but I gather based on their fear that the customer will run away with the design thats probably it. I hate telling my customers that I can't do something (especially if I could have charged for it if I could :D )

Second, Where SohoLaunch can help my customers lay out a page with drag and drop. The Tucow's product (if my deduction is right) leaves my customer with a text editing box which they will have to choose tables then draw and layout their page within the tables. If my customers understood about tables and design they wouldn't need a site builder. In addition all the templates I used and the featured sites I looked at had that fixed automated look. What I have liked about operational SL sites I've seen (not the templates) is that with the exception of the menu links they had a look to them that didn't seen like it had come out of a website building machine.

Third is the issue of functionality. I Like tha fact that I can go into the software and where permissible make changes. If ST allows it I am sure we could see a host of add on mods (Hint - I'd like to see one for 2checkout). its no small advantage to be able to access the code and not have it locked up on someone else's server. (we haven't even addressed monthly costs for each site)

Finally, No you wouldn't have to buy 100 of Sohotemplates. The other program if you look closely uses images over and over. You can buy a few of the templates replace some of the images, change some colors and have three or four variations and I am certain that you will eventually have designers that will take any design and rework into templates. But you are right that the other system has the lead in template.....for now. Which is why I have and do agree with you that a few more standard "wow" templates would be a big help in kicking off wide spread usage of Soholaunch.

[Ruben]

Neil,

the different colour schemes should be no problem, i will see what we can do and let you know asap.

[Ruben]

Hi Neil,

Finally, No you wouldn't have to buy 100 of Sohotemplates. The other program if you look closely uses images over and over. You can buy a few of the templates replace some of the images, change some colors and have three or four variations and I am certain that you will eventually have designers that will take any design and rework into templates. But you are right that the other system has the lead in template.....for now. Which is why I have and do agree with you that a few more standard "wow" templates would be a big help in kicking off wide spread usage of Soholaunch.

If you buy some templates you are allowed to change the images provided, so that should be no problem.

[Ruben]

I just don't want to forget to tell everybody that soholaunch did indeed spend a lot of time on making things easier for developers to create great templates and functionalities, but who wants a BAD looking site with many features? NEW features are on its way and together with the option to create great templates you have off course the ultimate solution.

It better to have a good looking website with a few good working features than a bad looking one with many features (to start with off course).

Things are going in the right direction and there will off course ALLWAYS be people who need special add-ons etc.

just my 2 cents :)

[netmotiv8]

Neil,

the different colour schemes should be no problem, i will see what we can do and let you know asap.

Excellent, I look forward to hearing from you on that.

Neil :)

[netmotiv8]

Hi Neil,

Okay, props where they deserve props. There are alot of templates but if I were a customer I'd get bored with the whole thing pretty quick as i did with my trial. In my trial of that product I found no way to replace images (in fact the system forbids the customer access to the files) , No way to put a product on any other page but a product page, No way to put a slogan or a logo where I wanted it. no way to change the header or a company banner at the top. The layout is static. Not only can't the customer change the files they need to but as far as I could see even if I wanted to I couldn't change the design behind the scenes either. Just the fact that I can't put a product on the front page makes it useless to most of my customers. Maybe theres more to it but I gather based on their fear that the customer will run away with the design thats probably it. I hate telling my customers that I can't do something (especially if I could have charged for it if I could :D )

Second, Where SohoLaunch can help my customers lay out a page with drag and drop. The Tucow's product (if my deduction is right) leaves my customer with a text editing box which they will have to choose tables then draw and layout their page within the tables. If my customers understood about tables and design they wouldn't need a site builder. In addition all the templates I used and the featured sites I looked at had that fixed automated look. What I have liked about operational SL sites I've seen (not the templates) is that with the exception of the menu links they had a look to them that didn't seen like it had come out of a website building machine.

Third is the issue of functionality. I Like tha fact that I can go into the software and where permissible make changes. If ST allows it I am sure we could see a host of add on mods (Hint - I'd like to see one for 2checkout). its no small advantage to be able to access the code and not have it locked up on someone else's server. (we haven't even addressed monthly costs for each site)

I agree the Tucows offering is inferior to soholaunch in the ways you have indicated, however they do have a load of templates which are pretty good although as you said not much they can do with them once you select. However, on Pro the templates, like the classic car or photography ones, look terrible as a first impression simply because they are very very dated and that remains my current issue with Pro. Ruben has designed some great modern up-to-date templates over at sohotemplates.com, but such templates of this type (not necessarily to same very high quality) should be 'standard' in Pro. Yes, soholaunch templates are highly customisable but a typical non-html customer will compare templates across different web site builder products like for like and probably choose the one the offers the best looking set of templates, not necessarily what features are included.

Neil :)

[Ruben]

I like the IT and Corporate templates you have just added. Exactly the kind of templates I;ve been waiting for.

Can you look at generating a football (soccer) templates, offering white, red, blue, black, green and yellow colour schemes. Aimed at the soccer enthusiast who would want to build a site dedicated to the team they support etc. Football (Soccer) being a worldwide popular game think this would be a cracking template to offer.

Also, how about Golf and Tennis, Formula 1 racing type sites too.

Neil :D


We just uploaded a golf template. Let me know what you think so we can create other kinds like these.

we also have a screenshot for the soccer template:
http://sohotemplates.com/scr/sport01pr.jpg


Ruben

[netmotiv8]

Hi Ruben,

Its all looking good :)

I have started a new post here http://forum.soholaunch.com/showthread.php?t=50 with some more ideas


Neil :)

[Ruben]

I still have your list with wanted templates, some are allready available and some are in development. We are also looking into shopping cart templates.

[Ruben]

I just would like to announce the new website for sohotemplates at http://www.sohotemplates.com , during the next weeks there will be more improvements to the template system to offer a wider range of services to our customers.

[ramcjbin]

Not even a single template is professional in SohoLaunch. They are all below basic. Templates in SohoTemplates are average.

We need SohoTemplates like templates in Soholaunch and SohoTemplates should concentrate on building high quality professional templates.

SohoLaunch is GOOD for designing when compared to other site-builders, but on templates part it is WORST of all site-builders.

As Neil correctly said months back, the person who use site-builder are novice, they need to get today's professional design just by click-of-mouse. So whichever gives good looking sites, that is the best site-builder as novice users do not need features.

I am 100% sure, SohoLaunch will be the best site-builder among present site-builders if it gives quality templates.

But it seems SohoLaunch do not like to be No. 1 as this thread was started few months back and there was no improvement in templates area till now.

[Adrian]

I am 100% sure, SohoLaunch will be the best site-builder among present site-builders if it gives quality templates.

I agree with this assessment, and this is why I have bought templates from SohoTemplates.com to compensate for Soholaunch's lack of good looking templates.

We need SohoTemplates like templates in Soholaunch and SohoTemplates should concentrate on building high quality professional templates.

This is exactly what should happen. Soholaunch and SohoTemplates should just simply combine forces, and the site builder market will have a clear leader. Anyone with me on this idea? :idea:

[demostorm]

This is exactly what should happen. Soholaunch and SohoTemplates should just simply combine forces, and the site builder market will have a clear leader. Anyone with me on this idea? :idea:

Its not simple if Sohotemplates can derive no meaningful profit from going that route. One thing I noticed when Soholaunch was integrated with Fantastico was how little people wanted to pay for it. I thought under $50/month per server was pretty good but it was amazing to see demands for prices well below that. So I am quite sure many would want the templates included for the same or lower pricing.

Where would Sohotemplates then derive its profit? We all know that integrating 20 or more sohotemplates into Soholaucnh would result in very few buying any additional designs thereby drying up their present sales. Integration into Fantastico was a no brainer and had to be done but I have always bemoaned the fact that the application then became something that mosts host want to offer for free and as such resist paying anything for it or anything associated with it (except thankfully training because it that saves the hosts serious hours of support time). The original idea was that this app would increase income for the host.

There are a few hosts we have dealt with that I think would actually prefer not having top of the line templates in Soholaunch (I think everyone would agree some improvements are needed) . They derive an income from offering unique and custom designs.

[Adrian]

Its not simple if Sohotemplates can derive no meaningful profit from going that route...Where would Sohotemplates then derive its profit?

If Soholaunch and Sohotemplates decide to partner, then obviously both parties would have to profit. It's for them to work out a meaningful deal. The fact remains, Soholaunch's base templates are very lackluster, and so far, I'm skeptical if they'll ever improve this part of their software. If Soholaunch wants to improve, then they must either create a new set of templates themselves, or outsource the creation of their templates to a design firm. I don't see any other organization besides Sohotemplates that is currently making good, presentable templates specifically for Soholaunch.

One thing I noticed when Soholaunch was integrated with Fantastico was how little people wanted to pay for it. I thought under $50/month per server was pretty good but it was amazing to see demands for prices well below that.

I think it's understandable for now. Soholaunch was introduced into Fantastico very recently. Web hosts will generally not jump into the whole "site builder" concept quite yet. There's also still some minor issues with the software itself. It's just all new. Site builder software is not a necessary component yet in the web hosting realm. I think this will change in time.

The original idea was that this app would increase income for the host.

With us, offering Soholaunch has gradually increased income and interest in our web hosting packages. I'm hoping this trend will continue as long as Soholaunch continues to update their software. :)

There are a few hosts we have dealt with that I think would actually prefer not having top of the line templates in Soholaunch (I think everyone would agree some improvements are needed) . They derive an income from offering unique and custom designs.

That's suprising. It's my thinking that web hosts don't want to even think about design work for their clients (which is why hosts would want to offer a site builder in the first place). There's definitely potential there if the host has the time, energy, and resources, to come up with unique designs for Soholaunch.

[demostorm]

Okay let me make sure I clarify this first - Soholaunch templates need to be improved. No brainer as far as I am concerned although you will probably disagree with me in regard to the degree of improvement. Surprising thing is I don't want to see top of the line designs in Soholaunch. 10 maybe 20 but thats it The rest should be decent but not exceptional. More on that controversial view later.

In regard to Sohotemplates - We are not geniuses here is all I am saying. Sohotemplates and Soholaunch are aware of each other and have been for some time and I'll bet the reason they haven't integrated is that the money is not there. We can want it to be different but thats the reality so far and I won't argue that a company ought o find a way to profit when the margins are too slim to do it. Outside of an outright buy out of the designs it would be interesting to see how much of under $50 a month Sohotemplates would get from licensing fees since the consensus is that prices should not be raised.

[demostorm]

I think it's understandable for now. Soholaunch was introduced into Fantastico very recently. Web hosts will generally not jump into the whole "site builder" concept quite yet. There's also still some minor issues with the software itself. It's just all new. Site builder software is not a necessary component yet in the web hosting realm. I think this will change in time.

Flat out Disagree on that. Sitebuilders are not new. Haven't been in years. Thats not the reason Hosts want lower pricing for Soholaunch. Fantastico users are accustomed to free GPL products they can offer to customers as a feature set without paying individually for. Web hosts are in a price driven market which means most lower end hosts are clamoring for free or nearly free products which in a vicious cycle allows for even lower prices. Those are the reasons for wanting Soholaunch to be cheaper and they are not likely to change the older Soholaunch becomes.

Nothing will stop this trend except money. As long as every feature a host can offer costs nothing or close to nothing it will be thrown into hosting plans for free and the more hosts will throw it in for free. Once thats the case with Soholaunch wheres the differentiation? You enjoy an upswing in interest and profitability because now you can go over to Sohotemplates and buy the designs you did. That means that your offer looks different fromt the guy running a six month trial or the guy who only has web studio. What good will that do you when everyone is running around with the same templates?

We need ten or twenty good designs to make the customer see the value of the application and the possibilities of it and then let the customer or the hosts pay for the right to offer additional looks. Thats right actually derive some revenue from an application With the feature set of Soholaunch its more than a sitebuilder. Its pretty close to becoming an easy design tool. Theres no reason to cheapen the entire web design industry with a multitude of templates installed all over the place as they will be now that its on Fantastico

[ramcjbin]

See your competitors, their price and what they offer. Site-builder is for novice users. They need beautiful professional site in mouse clicks. Those guys do not need rich features. They just need a Wysiwyg editor with beautiful templates.

For life-time license fee of $ 1 and below for a domain this is achieved from your competitors with 100s of beautiful templates.

This clearly shows templates do not cost that much.

I even saw in a forum one site-builder company was asking 100 nos. professional quality templates and they have informed that they won't pay more than $ 10 for each template. 100s of replies were there to supply the templates.

Just integrate quality templates in SohoLaunch and see the result. Many will start using SohoLaunch or will be ready to switch from other site-builder. Now they refuse to switch as many novice people feel their current site-builder with eye catching templates is the best. I am 100% sure SohoLaunch will be on top and your competitors will loose business as their power lies only on templates if SohoLaunch provides atleast some basic professional quality templates.

SohoTemplates should consider building templates of quality as in Template Monster, Boxed Art etc.

[demostorm]

See your competitors, their price and what they offer

First things first its not my competitors. I am not a representative of Soholaunch and at no point even pretend to speak on their behalf. Just stating my 0pinion as you are yours

Site-builder is for novice users. They need beautiful professional site in mouse clicks. Those guys do not need rich features. They just need a Wysiwyg editor with beautiful templates.

Totally disagree and I've been around long enough to see my point proven. People will sign up for a beautiful site sure enough .... and cancel their hosting in a few months if they can't do anything but look at it. We are no longer in the "gee whiz doesn't my site look pretty" stage. Customers who are actually going to stick around more than a few months want to know they can do more with their site than look at it even if they never get around to it. Present day sitebuilders outside of Soholaunch are stifling because stiebuilders give you little recourse to add anything to it.

Frankly the whole sitebuilder moniker is something I would love for Soholaunch to get away from. Everyone concentrates on the editing of a page. So what? Whats the big idea in editing pages online? Why shouldn't a customer use frontpage, Namo or one of those cheap non HTML editors that are drag and drop and cost next to nothing. Soholaunch is quite possible the first to offer drag and drop ecommerce on an online application (and better than even offline cart apps or plugins) and thats all hid from a great deal of the public because its wrapped in the Sitebuilder status. Add some features to the cart system and no one would think twice about paying $40 a pop PER SITE for the privilege of using it. Why? Because even with Oscommerce carts haven't be devalued.

This clearly shows templates do not cost that much. I even saw in a forum one site-builder company was asking 100 nos. professional quality templates and they have informed that they won't pay more than $ 10 for each template. 100s of replies were there to supply the templates

I felt this thread was heading in the direction of devaluing the web design industry. You've now openly stated it. all we have to do is look at what at what they got for $10. Do you realize how much you are getting a template for when you get one at Sohotemplates. You buy it once and can use it on a server forever (again not a Sohotemplates rep either but thats my understanding). for as many domains as pass though it.

Just integrate quality templates in SohoLaunch and see the result. Many will start using SohoLaunch or will be ready to switch from other site-builder.

Why should they switch? If your logic is that features don't matter why not stay where they are with the hundreds of designs you claim other sitebuilders offer. Obviously features do matter and thats also why you are here even bothering to debate this matter.

Templates should consider building templates of quality as in Template Monster, Boxed Art etc.

Like I said a few of those would be fine and I agree with that but not multitudes of them as you propose. Thats not merely about getting good looking sites so people will be encouraged to use the software. Its also about wanting the world on a dime. Why does Soholaunch have to be the gift that keeps on giving? Unlimited Carts on a server included, page editor included, unlimited photo galleries included, unlimited newsletter systems included, Unlimited calendars included. Now they should completely eliminate the need for us to buy any designs to work with it and Oh we don't want to pay $40 per month. make it less. Where does it end? Easy answer. Bankruptcy.

[Adrian]

Flat out Disagree on that. Sitebuilders are not new. Haven't been in years. Thats not the reason Hosts want lower pricing for Soholaunch. Fantastico users are accustomed to free GPL products they can offer to customers as a feature set without paying individually for. Web hosts are in a price driven market which means most lower end hosts are clamoring for free or nearly free products which in a vicious cycle allows for even lower prices. Those are the reasons for wanting Soholaunch to be cheaper and they are not likely to change the older Soholaunch becomes.

You have to understand my perspective in this. I think the entire web hosting industry and the Internet in general is still in its infancy. The power of the Internet has not been completely harnessed nor entirely realized at this point. Site builders (complete web-based applications built solely on creating web sites), have only been around for a few years and only now are settling in as a “standard” in web hosting packages. The first I’ve heard of a Site Builder offered directly to web hosts was Psoft’s SiteStudio back in 2001. I’m sure that there were other site builders before, but if you think about it, 5-6 years is really not a long time. All web-based software (even today’s control panels) are new and will not completely mature for several years.

Those are the reasons for wanting Soholaunch to be cheaper and they are not likely to change the older Soholaunch becomes.

I hope Soholaunch is more patient in this endeavor. Most host providers are already paying for a Fantastico license fee, so it’s understandable that they expect for all pre-installed software to be free. This has been the way for Fantastico since its inception. However, Soholaunch was just introduced to Fantastico in November of 2004. That’s only 5 months ago! I hope Soholaunch wasn’t thinking they were expecting a flood of license fees to come their way immediately. They should have a much more long-term strategy about this. Remember that probably most Fantastico users have never heard of Soholaunch before November 2004. I myself have studied Soholaunch since late 2003, and only recently plopped down license fees for Soholaunch a few months ago. I think you will see more web hosts offer Soholaunch, but it’s all dependent on Soholaunch consistently updating their software and adding new features.

What good will that do you when everyone is running around with the same templates?

Good point. As a web host, I would like to differentiate our services as much as possible. Offering the same templates that every other web host has will not attract new customers. The problem for the end user is, it’s quite difficult to create a good template from scratch or import existing templates that would be completely compatible with Soholaunch. Perhaps if there was an easy way web hosts can implement TemplateMonster templates onto their site, this discussion would be over.

[Ruben]

Hi all,

At this moment i think its important to make an UN-official statement here concering templates. We will come back later with an official one as soon as we can say more about it.

"We need ten or twenty good designs to make the customer see the value of the application and the possibilities of it and then let the customer or the hosts pay for the right to offer additional looks."

We are off course talking with Soholaunch management to deliver you guys an X amount of high quality templates which can be integrated in soholaunch, thats the idea. how many has to be discussed.

We know (un-official) that Soholaunch is working on a new kind of Template manager / blog manager, which will give us (template builders) more flexibillity.
At this moment we just can not create more complex templates than we offer today, because soholaunch can not handle too many promo boxes, news boxes, subscription forms etc.
As soon as this problem is fixed, all templates (where needed) will be updated and a total new range of high quality template will be available through Sohotemplates.com, Soholaunch.com and/or included with Soholaunch.

Again.. We have tried to convert TemplateMonster templates as a Test, but that leaves you with ripping out many features, thats why we create our own templates from scratch.

We (at ViaStep's Sohotemplates.com) and management at Soholaunch are aware of the template 'problem' and im sure this will be solved shortly.

Again, this all is UN-official, but had the feeling we needed to update you guys on this, we will get back to all of you as soon as we have a Official anwser.

[demostorm]

You have to understand my perspective in this.

HI adrain,

I do understand your perspective and mean you know disrespect because I am fairly passionate about a trend I see in the hosting industry. Due to pandering to the customer who wants an umlimited bandwidth, 10GB hosting plan with all the extras for 2 bucks a month we're tempted into taking an approach that wouldn't seem reasonable in any offline business.

I trust you understand that the hosting industry has got itself to the point where we almost all offer the same thing which means that all thats left to compete on is price. Thats where an application like Soholaunch could make a difference but it won't if its cheapened to meet the $2 a month pricing.


"understandable.....expect all pre-installed software to be free. This has been the way for Fantastico since its inception."

What did Fantastico cost this year for a host thats been in the business over a year? 20 something dollars. Less than $8 a month if you are in your first year (which completely ignore the plain fact that many hosts pay NADA for it as its included with their server or NOC) . So fair enough you do get scores of applications for free installed at a drop of a hat. Name me another business purchase for $8 a month that we demand the provider to keep adding features to for free on top of the scores of applications it already has? I can think of none

I can tell you are a serious hosting business but I can see where we've become infected by the mentality of the hosts we have to compete with that are here to day and gone tomorrow (but only to be replaced by more of the same) and they pollute the market place precisely because they can come in for little or nothing and compete on every feature we have before crashing and burning (usuallly on the issue of support)

Good point. As a web host, I would like to differentiate our services as much as possible. Offering the same templates that every other web host has will not attract new customers. The problem for the end user is .

Shouldn't be a problem for the end user but you know that because you are the fairly rare host that actually makes some investments in making your hosting different and different in the particular area that cheap hosts won't compete with because ... well because they are cheap and think along those lines. Valid point on the Template integration. Leads back to the need for a new editor. Three columns, no access to the header images and a variety of other technical issues means there are limits that need to be overcome.